Witchcraft a crime again?

« Living stones - part 2 | News about the Book... »

Witchcraft a crime again?

by tylluanpenry @ Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 – 14:42:51

I had never thought to be writing this. On our planet, in this year 2008 a woman has been condemned to death for Witchcraft. Yes, it's happened in Saudi Arabia and not in Peckham, but after all, the Saudi's are considered allies to the west, aren't they?

Most of the newspaper and online reports concentrate on the absurdity of the claim that anyone could possibly be a witch but that's not all that's at stake here. It's freedom of religion... the freedom to be who we want. If a witch or anyone else commits a crime, then try them by all means for that crime, but not for what they believe.

When I was young I was brought up to be very careful about telling people my beliefs. 'Bad times can return' was the general warning, and I must admit I thought my elders were being over cautious.

Now I realise they were right.....
Options:
Tags:
- witchcraft
- saudi arabia

28 Comments to Witchcraft a crime again?

Hide subcomments

- jackfrost ^Pro
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 14:49:36
history has shown they were right all along!!!
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:42:39
  It's terrifying!
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- sallyontour ^Pro
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 15:53:52
Is that the case here though? They (and many others too in the West) do not see witchcraft as a religion other than in a 'Devil-worshipper' sense, which of course is a ridiculous concept to us. However, even in this so-called enlightened country there are still people who are guilty of the same ignorant assumptions.

My opinion is that in this particular case religious freedom doesn't come into it, as the woman is not standing up for her beliefs as such but rather being falsely accused, much as in the 'Burning Times' false accusations were made against many women, young and old, who had no connection with The Craft.

Whatever, it is unforgiveable to punish anyone for a crime which cannot be proven.

I was also taught not to speak of my beliefs, although I've always fought against that. I've been targeted by fundamentalists and suffered vandalism a a result, but I believe it is important to educate people or change will never happen.
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:47:15
  Thanks for posting such a long and thoughtful comment Sally. I agree there are many issues at stake here, not least of which is the fact that even within the constraints of Saudi law this particular case seems to have broken all the rules.
  
  I've always been cautious about saying too much, but as I got older I thought 'sod it' because I feel people have a right to be told the truth about witchcraft and paganism instead of being fed the old diet of devil worshipping nonsense....
  
  I'm sorry to hear you've been targeted because of your beliefs. As you say, it's important to educate people in order to bring about change.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- miramaze
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 16:21:52
Where did you read that , Mrs P ? It's shocking, it really is !!

I've always been public about my beliefs , but then people have never taken me seriously

XX
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:48:57
  It's on the Human Rights Watch website here:
  
  http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/14/saudia18051.htm
  
  And it's hard to believe that it's really happening in the 21st century......
  - - miramaze
    - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 11:04:18
    It's appalling ! I cannot begin to wrap my brain around this . It's stirring up so much anger in me. Thanks for the link , T, I shall simmer a bit longer . Bless
    X
    - Reply to comment
    - Permalink
- deleted user (Visitor)
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 16:35:02
Its been alluded to here I have noticed, coverage of some of the extreme practises shown in certain african immigrants ie exorsisms of children etc.
As Sally says, it can seep into the ideas and attitudes quite easily. I dont claim to be an anything in particular, for my own reasons. I certainly am very careful here, as I know the attudes are so close minded, being a vegetarian is considered radical.
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:50:56
  Religion (of all varieties) certainly seems to bring out the worst in people.....
  
  When I was younger I was extremely careful not to share my beliefs without being certain I was in safe company. Cases like this show just how fragile are the rights and freedoms were sometimes take for granted.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- ganesharocks
- http://yogini.blog.ca
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 18:04:16
Unspeakable

"Never again the Burning times"
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:51:54
  Our rights and freedoms are so precious - and can be lost so easily....
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- deleted user (Visitor)
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 19:57:56
It is extremely sad that in this day and age, this is still going on in the world.
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:52:49
  It is indeed. The more things change, the more they seem to stay the same...
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- skip2468
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 20:10:53
We are not much better here. Some are punished very lightly for a type of crime for which others are severely sentenced.

Punishment here is clearly subjective rather than objective. The punishment rarely fits the crime!

It seems that those who pass the sentence are scared and make sure that they protect themselves, with the result that criminals and gangs treat so called 'justice' as nothing but a joke!
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:54:05
  Very true, although at least in the west men can buy Viagra rather than accused their neighbour of witchcraft!
  
  There should be a way of achieving a proper balance between crime and punishment.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- skip2468
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 20:11:12
We are not much better here. Some are punished very lightly for a type of crime for which others are severely sentenced.

Punishment here is clearly subjective rather than objective. The punishment rarely fits the crime!

It seems that those who pass the sentence are scared and make sure that they protect themselves, with the result that criminals and gangs treat so called 'justice' as nothing but a joke!
- Reply to comment
- Permalink
- moonwoman
- http://www.moonwomenspirituality.com
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 23:01:19
Like you, I kept my belief systems under wraps for fear of career reprisals all the time I was working in the public and Catholic school systems.

It was a huge relief when I retired. However only my closest friends knew I was an astrologer. Astrologers and witches have had this historical punishments because the church fears our knowledge will empower people. Only the highest officials in the RC church know that all the lovely churches in the old British empire were created on power spots that the Druids and other ancient peoples knew about.

It was such a huge relief to me when I joined Blogland and could finally talk about the things I have been passionate about for decades. Yes, we still have to be cautious! ...even in this small rural area.
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:56:16
  Astrologers were also particularly feared under the Roman Empire, and the death penalty awaited those who foretold when the emperor would die.... possibly they feared encouraging people to assassinate the emperor in order to fulfil the prophecy.
  
  It's actually surprising just how many pagan practices persisted long after Christianity became the official (and only) religion of Europe.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- ranfuchs ^Pro
- Friday, 15. Feb, 2008 @ 23:26:40
but Saudi never claimed they practice freedom of religion. Most of the world does not. As a world we are not very different that we were hundred of years ago.
- - tylluanpenry
  - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 09:59:48
  You're quite right, the Saudi's don't claim to practice any freedom of religion. What makes this case interesting is that even by Saudi Arabia's own legal system, this case falls horribly short. In other words, the woman has been made a scapegoat, and the need for a scapegoat transcends the need for justice.
  
  When I mentioned freedom of religion, I probably didn't explain that what I was afraid of was that cases like this whip up the fear of witchcraft debate again, which in turn leeds to persecution (manifesting in various ways) even in countries such as the UK.
  - - ranfuchs ^Pro
    - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 10:03:41
    But it’s interesting that it’s you that open the debate. If you believe that witchcraft is real and powerful, than you must find ways to regulate it. If, on the other hand, you believe it doesn’t exist, or it’s nothing at all, all you need to do is regulate against fraudulent usage of it, but can allow free practice. So really how much is it to be regulated depends on your belief of its relevancy.
    - - tylluanpenry
      - Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 10:16:17
      I have no influence in Saudi Arabia. I can regulate nothing there.
      
      In this country it should go without saying that provided you live within the civil laws of the land, your personal beliefs are your own.
      
      If one's personal beliefs cause me to commit a crime, then I should be subject to the same laws as everyone else.
      
      Persecuting someone for being a witch, is not the same as persecuting a witch who has committed a crime.
      
      The case in Saudi Arabia did not even follow Saudi law - it was just a case of finding a scapegoat.
      
      Saudi Arabia is a close ally of the West. The Archbishop of Canterbury seems to think Sharia law might be a good idea.
      Hence, I have a few concerns....
      - ranfuchs ^Pro
        
        Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 10:21:27
        
        well put. I agree.
        I think that we shoud send Archibishop of Cnterbury to Iran for a few years (say 30 - 60 years) to see and feel the result of the Sharia law on himslef as a Christian, and then let listen to him again
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        tylluanpenry
        
        Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 10:24:03
        
        Yes, I think that would be an excellent idea!
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
- Mrs_F
- Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 17:54:31
That is horrific, but in Saudi many so called "crimes" carry the death sentence.

I wonder what she did though to attract attention to herself. Was her crime actually malicious use of witchcraft, was she even a witch or just being eccentric?

X
- - tylluanpenry
  - Monday, 18. Feb, 2008 @ 14:12:51
  I don't know any more details other than what I've read on the Human Rights Watch link - I think the whole thing seems to be shrouded in mystery....
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- catzycradle
- Saturday, 16. Feb, 2008 @ 23:06:44
Which Muslim country was it that they whipped a little girl, 6 years of age, to death, because she wore red shoes? Religous freedom doesn't exist, probably because most religions are based on power, manipulation and control. I wonder sometimes if people's non-belief in "freewill" will change in my life time?
- - tylluanpenry
  - Monday, 18. Feb, 2008 @ 14:13:59
  I hadn't heard the story about the little girl - do you have a link for it? Sounds horrific!
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink