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the supernatural

by tylluanpenry @ Monday, 05. May, 2008 - 09:51:42

Mr Penry can be pedantic at times. This comes of his having had a far superior education to mine, and also, I suspect, due to the fact that he smokes a pipe. Whereas I tend to talk for Wales (something you can check for yourself if you make it to the Wales Witchfest), he can punctuate his thoughts and comments with long, thoughtful puffs on his pipe.

This can make conversation a tad onesided, especially if he's sitting there smoking a pipeful of his favourite tobacco (something dark and evil smelling...)

So there I was this morning at breakfast, yacking on about the supernatural (meaning, of course, things such as ghosts, magic and all the other odds and sods that come under this title) when he suddenly said, 'You can't really believe in the supernatural.'
This brought me up pretty damn quick. 'Of course I do.'
'No,' he said, 'Think about it. If you believe in something, then you believe that it exists. Something supernatural is outside reality, and therefore nothing that exists can be supernatural. It's a contradiction in terms.'

And all before breakfast! It reminds me of the time one of my daughters and I worked out why evil exists while doing the washing up one New Year's Eve.....

He's a thoughtful man, is Mr Penry....

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It isn't just Mr P that's pedantic... BCUK seems to have been having a moment of pedantry all its own this morning... again! :-/

Mr P does have a point doesn't he? I'd never thought about it before.... but if you believe it, then it must exist... :roll:

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 14:20

It can be great fun to talk ourselves round in circles sometimes!

Lots of fun to be had there I'll bet. :yes:

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-06 @ 10:10

Definitely - though it does make me dizzy sometimes!

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 11:32

I do not agree with Mr Penry - you can pedantically and philosophically define, till you are blue in the face. Supernatural has other meanings which, with all due respect, it appears that Mr Penry is pedantically blind to.

There are many dictionaries, if the definition is down to dictionary interpretation. If used academically, the said dictionary has to be quoted as other meanings will be found elsewhere.

The term does not necessarily just mean 'outside reality' and therein lies the weakness of his thesis.

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 14:23

Very true. I think he was trying to make me consider exactly what it was that I was saying - no bad thing sometimes if I'm rabbitting on!

I don't think any of us will ever agree upon a single definition of 'supernatural' (or anything else, for that matter ;)) but I think what he meant was that I believed that the supernatural does exist, and yet at the same time could (depending on one's definition) have been contradicting myself.

It made breakfast very interesting, anyway!

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 14:43

Sounds like some kind of brain fodder with electrical synapses plugged in, was on the breakfast menu! ;)

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 14:57

You may well be right - alternatively someone spiked his tobacco! ;)

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 20:51

No what supernatural force would have spiked Mr P's morning tobacco? ;)

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 21:30

The House Brownie, maybe?

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 22:39

Ah, who or what might that be?

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-06 @ 00:49

If you type House Brownie into the search box on the right hand side of this page you'll come up with two posts that shed a little more light on the matter :)

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-06 @ 09:56

Been to the brownie blog. Some of the events you mention may have a scientific explanation. As for others, well that's anyone's guess.

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-06 @ 10:09

I think science can explain most of what we call 'the paranormal/supernatural/ unexplained.' Unfortunately at the moment science isn't really looking for an explanation.

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-06 @ 10:55

I don't hold with that answer Tylluan; science does not explain it all, some it cannot.

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-06 @ 12:33

Actually I only said that science could explain 'most'.... :)

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-06 @ 13:14

Nope, I don't accord with that either. Science tells us much about physical and chemical matters. How do we know that that is explaining 'most'; we don't.

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-06 @ 14:36

Well, we shall just have to agree to differ. ;)

menhirmenhir [Member]
2008-05-06 @ 20:02

;) I'm not sure that we are entirely differing.

miramazemiramaze [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 11:54

LOL at "he can punctuate his thoughts and comments with long, thoughtful puffs on his pipe.".. I love that sentence.I'm picturing Mr P's punctuating ;)

If the supernatural can be named it exists, doesn't it ? Even that which cannot be named can exist.

You can believe in whatever you like :)
Also , you can " know" that something exists having experienced it. That is a real as it ever gets ;)

Put that in your pipe and smoke it , MrP :))

Mr P may have a " superior education " but he does not your wise womans wisdom that is unique and special to you :)

XX

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 14:26

I think what he meant was that 'supernatural' was perhaps a poor choice of word.... maybe I should have used 'paranormal' instead...:roll: or maybe not ;)

He certainly never decries my beliefs, but we do enjoy talking ourselves round in circles from time to time....:)

miramazemiramaze [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 19:12

Most enjoyable .. yes :yes: :)

X

amaletskaamaletska [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 13:33

ask Mr. P. to define "reality". And "to exist". :)
Natural - supernatural - ... - is there "undernatural"? %)

Hm, hm, the linguistic tricks! :)

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 14:28

Good grief, if I got him onto defining things he'd never get to help me with the washing up! And he'd probably burn a hole in his pipe (again!) :yes:

amaletskaamaletska [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 15:56

:) :) :) you are making me smile... no, laugh out loud!

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 21:31

I aim to please! :yes: :))

adamantixxadamantixx [Member]
http://adamantixx.blog.co.uk
2008-05-05 @ 16:38

i think there are many things throughout the universe that we either do not know about or do not, as yet, understand...believing they may exist is merely having an open mind :)

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-05 @ 21:33

I firmly believe that minds are like umbrellas - they work best when they are open! ;)

philghodgphilghodg [Member]
2008-05-05 @ 22:24

He has a bit of a point. Must be that pipe tobacco helping him think clearly

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-06 @ 00:49

That's just what he would say, Phil! ;)

wendlanewendlane pro
2008-05-07 @ 23:34

Actually I haven't seen a pipe smoker for many a year and always liked the smell of pipe tobacco, can you still get the pipes as most tobacconists are closed now? Obviously Mr P still has a supply.

As for 'supernatural' I have always thought of the word as meaning something out of our notmal or usual understanding of the natural world or 'the unexplained' and of course we have to believe in the presence of the unexplained because the unexplained exists! Until an explanation s discovered by the scientific world it remains 'super natural' So Mr P you are wrong and Mrs P is correct in my opinion you'll have to put that in your pipe and smoke it boom boom :))

tylluanpenrytylluanpenry pro
2008-05-08 @ 09:49

Yes, you can still get pipe tobacco... there's a very good tobacconist (the Bear Shop in the Wyndham Arcade) down in Cardiff, and of course there's always the internet.

I think Mr P was being a tad pedantic by suggesting that I couldn't believe something existed when the word I was using meant something that didn't exist.... as you know, he is a very gifted medium, and by no means a sceptic about the unknown!

:)

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